The Hidden 12V Breaker

Where is the 12v reset switch hidden? It depends on the floor plan. It's always within 18 inches of the chassis batteries.

Late Model Mid Bath

The breaker is located on the cabinet structural member that divides the refrigerator stack from the stove.  It's rather difficult to access.  

In the first photo showing the open cabinet under the fridge, the circuit breaker is to the left when looking in.  A side panel must first be removed (attached with four screws).  Note that in the photo, the back panel is removed, exposing the plastic battery compartment housing.

The second photo shows the bottom of the cabinet structural member that separates the refrigerator from the stove.  The white mass to the right is the freshwater tank.

The third photo is a close-up of the circuit breaker.  The reset button is barely visible on the left side.

Here's a photo with the drawer out.  It's now obvious to me that that's the intended way to access the breaker.  The breaker is bottom left in the photo.

Jim

1983 Mid Bath

Located under the dinette seat

2010 Rear Bath

The reset breaker is under the dinette seat! 

Removing the cushion to the forward most seat,  I realized that 1/2 of the storage under that seat is covered with a piece of plywood.  And, it is screwed down. 

Most would say, "why would you put a reset device under a panel that requires you to unscrew it - to view it".

After removing the four (4) small screws, the hole contains a sealed battery box for the house batteries, a junction box for wiring, the secret 12V reset breaker, and a good look at one end of the house freshwater tank.

So here are the photos for those of you looking for this secret Reset Breaker on a 2010 Rear Bath.

Cheers!

Tony R. (aka codefour)

2021 Rear Bath

In our 2021 RB the breaker is now mounted on the left side rear wall of the battery box. There are no breakers outside of the box.

Mike C

2007 Twin King

Here are pictures of the 12V circuit breaker/reset switch in our 2007 TK. It is under the refrigerator on the wall to the left. It can be seen after the large drawer is pulled out from under the refrigerator. The back of the battery box is on the left, the power center is below, and the water heater is on the right.

Charles

Rear Kitchen

It is located behind the drawer directly below wardrobe - next to the couch.

Rick

30/31 Foot

The photos are from 2002 30' with the 2 drawers under the fridge pulled out. The breaker is on the floor in the lower right hand corner while facing the fridge.

Chris

26 Island Bed

Probably the most difficult to access since the power distribution box has to be removed.

MattB

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In addition to the hidden 12v reset switch, there is another 12v system breaker in the battery compartment.

The first schematic is from a 2004 and before owner's manual. The presence of a diode isolator on the firewall indicates it's applicability. Notice the "hidden" breaker on the right, feeding the power distribution box. On the left is another breaker that is mounted in the battery box.

Starting in 2005 a solenoid exciter was used in lieu of a diode isolator. The function is the same. 

The black 100-amp breaker in the battery compartment protects the circuit between the battery isolator or relay and the coach battery.

The "hidden" circuit breaker protects the power supply to the 12-volt side of the Power Center. It trips when it gets hot, as in a short.

Some LDs come with an automatic breaker, they reset themselves and do not have buttons. Our 2003 came with an automatic breaker.

Larry W

This breaker is the automatic reset type, normally requires no manual intervention. The only time it needs attention is a serious short circuit occurred, forcing it to constantly trigger. In that case, a detailed troubleshooting is needed to find where is the short in the 12v circuits.

No AC or DC Power

The situation: you are hooked to 110VAC but none of the 12DC appliances are working and the battery is down below 11 volts. Just as a check for the 110VAC power, make sure the display in the microwave oven is lit and that the air conditioner fan runs (i.e. at the start of a problem, look for the simple things and don't assume ANYTHING).

Both the refer and furnace always need 12volts to operate. Hooked to shore power or not.

If you do indeed have 110VAC power in the coach, it is apparent that the converter is not supplying power to the 12DC buss and the battery is now discharged. Check again to make sure all the circuit breakers in the power center are on. The handle of a tripped breaker can be wiggled up and down. A breaker is on when its handle is up. If a handle wiggles, push it down to the off position and then push it up.

Assuming that, that doesn't cause the voltage readout in the solar controller to read above 12 volts, it's time to check the fuses in the DC fuse panel. The two 30 amp fuses at the top of the panel are between the converter and the coach's 12VDC bus. Check to make sure BOTH of them are good. (They are in parallel so if one fails, the other will normally blow.)

If you 1) have 110VAC power, and 2) the 30 amp DC fuses are good, and 3) the DC voltage is still below 12 volts, there is a good chance the converter has packed up. Before we jump to that conclusion, there are some other things to look at before we are completely sure.First, do you have solar panels? If you do, and the sun is out, they should be providing some current and should keep the DC voltage higher than it might otherwise be. Does the solar panel controller show that there is current being sent into the system?

Second, if you start the coach's engine, does the voltage on the DC bus rise to something well over13 volts? IF the answer of either of these questions is no, then something else is either the problem or perhaps something else has failed at the same time (collateral damage?). For instance, there is a chance that the breaker between the battery and the DC distribution panel is open or that the solar panel fuse is blown. The breaker is typically in the back of the battery compartment or is accessed by removing the drawer below the refrigerator in a midbath and
perhaps other floor plans.

When you have 110VAC in the coach, if the converter is working, for coaches delivered after mid November of 2001, the voltage of the DC system should
be about 13.8 volts. That's the converter's nominal output voltage. (Earlier coaches have a different converter so the next two paragraphs do
not apply.)

But, even if it's working correctly the voltage may be something above or below 13.8 volts "for awhile". For instance, if you have been driving for
awhile and/or you have solar panels under a bright sun the battery's voltage may be higher than 13.8 V for "awhile" after you stop or until the
sun goes down. Then, the voltage should decrease to 13.8 volts.

On the other hand, if the battery is well down as you plug-in to 110VAC, even if the converter is working the voltage will not instantaneously jump up to 13.8 Volts. A working The converter, will put ~30+ amps into the battery which will cause the batteries voltage to jump up but it will not immediately reach 13.8 Volts. After "awhile", that is, as you watch, the voltage should rise bit by bit to 13.8 volts.

Note how useful a simple $10 multi-meter is for trouble shooting. First of all, if you don't have a built in solar panel controller voltmeter you can use a multi-meter to measure the DC bus voltage by measuring across those big square terminals at the lower right of the DC fuse panel. Knowing the DC bus voltage then you can then compare it with the voltage across the battery's terminals to see if the DC breaker is tripped. Or, one could measure to see if there was any appreciable voltage drop across the 30 amp fuses in the DC fuse panel to see if they are blown. Another use would be to pull the 30 amp DC fuses and measure from the top open terminal of one of them to the big square ground lug to see if the converter is making DC at all. Multi-meters are a really useful tool when trouble shooting.

Linley

Batteries

It's a widespread misconception that 50% discharge is a magic number, and going past that will cause damage. The truth is that there's a nearly linear relationship between how far you discharge a battery and how many charge/discharge cycles (total battery life span) you can expect to get. This is best shown by the chart found partway down this page of Eureka! Live:
http://www.andybaird.com/Eureka/pages/batteries.htm
(Footnote: the chart is based on one I found on Concorde's website, and the original referred to their AGM batteries. Nevertheless, although the exact numbers may vary, the curve shown holds true for just about any lead-acid battery--flooded-cell, gel, or AGM.)
Looking at the chart, you can see that if you only discharge your batteries 10% (not that that would be practical), you can get 5,000 cycles out of them. If you go to 50%, you're looking at about 1,000 cycles. At 80% discharge, you're down to about 500 cycles. And so on.
The exact numbers may vary for different types of lead-acid batteries, but the point is that the relationship between discharge level and lifespan is a linear one: the lower you drain them, the fewer cycles they're good for. There's no "knee" in the curve, so there's no magic number (e.g., 50%) above which everything is fine and below which you cause permanent damage. It's a continuum, and it's up to you how you want to use your batteries.
Some folks choose to push their batteries hard in order to support the lifestyle they prefer, accepting that they will probably have to be replaced more frequently. That's a perfectly valid choice.
I tend to go in the other direction, rarely discharging my batteries below 80% charge (20% discharge) and almost always charging them up to 100% at least once every day. I can get away with that because I have 520 amp-hours worth of batteries, so I can pull 100 Ah out of them and still only have discharged them 20%.
But again, that's a personal choice I make, and it isn't the right choice for everyone. If you have the factory-standard 225 Ah batteries, limiting yourself to a 20% discharge (45 Ah) would probably put unreasonable limits on your lifestyle.
The moral is: understand what your batteries can do, and what to expect of them. Then use them as best suits your needs. They can always be replaced--and in the long run, they will have to be sooner or later; it's just a question of when.

From the Trojan web site:
*Discharging:*
1. Shallow discharges will result in a longer battery life. What they should add is "you'll get more cycles, but not more total amp hours over the life of the battery".
2. 50% (or less) discharges are recommended. Reasonable suggestion when you have no idea how well people are monitoring their batteries.
3. 80% discharge is the maximum safe discharge. I think this is sensible, as it corresponds with what I know about deep cycle lead acid batteries but requires more careful monitoring.
4. Do not fully discharge flooded batteries (80% or more). This will damage (or kill) the battery.
5. Many experts recommend operating batteries only between the 50% to 85% of full charge range. A periodic equalization charge is a must when using this practice. This is usually about charging efficiency, rather than battery life. It's how I do it when we use the genset to charge, because the last 15% of charge is done at a low rate and requires excessive genset running.
6. Do not leave batteries deeply discharged for any length of time. This is a real killer, worse than deep discharges followed by immediate charging.
/If you are using AGM batteries, be sure to check the manufacturer's data sheets. My experience with deep cycle AGM's is they are more tolerant of deep discharges than flooded batteries.

Buying new Trojan batteries:
- Each battery should have a voltage between about 6.2V to 6.4V.  This would be not connected and having been at rest for a while.
- Check the date code. All batteries have a manufacture date code on them. Trojan uses two codes: one on the positive and one on the negative terminals. One tells you the date of mfg and the other tells you when electrolyte was added and it shipped from the factory. They use letters and numbers. A-L represents the months Jan-Dec. On date of mfg they use two digits for year. On date shipped they use a single digit, so L3 would mean it shipped Dec. 2013.
- Be sure to follow proper, safe procedures: read the Lazy Daze Companion article on how to disconnect batteries.

Contributors: Andy Baird, Eric Greenwell, WxToad, Jim C.

Date revised: 16 Jan 2014

RV Power for Dummies

If you know much of anything about electricity, this article is not for you. You already know all this!

For the beginner, this will seem like a lot of info, but I've tried to keep it simple. Just read it over a couple of times and hopefully it will help you to begin to understand the electrical power in your RV.


Before I go any further, one note . . . If you are ordering a new Lazy Daze, I think one of the most important options you can pay for is to get as many 12-volt (Direct Current or DC) and 110 volts (Alternating Current or AC) outlets as they will give you. It's been my experience that they're never where you want them, so I like having them everywhere! We got all they would allow, and still had to put more in!


110 volt power is what you have in a regular house. It comes from the power poles that feed your home. You access it via through those familiar 3-prong plugs.


12 volts is what is supplied to your RV from your battery bank. In your RV, if you're sitting out in the middle of nowhere, you're running off of 12-volt power supplied by your batteries. Think of the plugs that go into a cigarette lighter. That is a 12-volt outlet.


The 12-volt plugs cab dash are powered by the cab battery located under the hood. The house batteries, which power the lights, etc. in the living quarters of the motor home are located somewhere in the body of the motor home.


One short note about house batteries. They come in two types, flooded cell and sealed (AGM or gel cell). If you have flooded cell batteries you must maintain them by checking that they have enough distilled water in them. If your batteries don't have enough water, they will die a premature death. There are many ways to water your batteries but that's another subject. Just remember that this is a crucial step in preserving your power. KEEP YOUR BATTERIES WATERED!!!
Tech Note: A Profill system is commonly used to keep the batteries topped off.


If you have replaced your flooded cell batteries with AGMs or gel cell, they are sealed and never need water. There are many advantages to sealed batteries, but they are considerably more expensive than flooded cells. Since most RVs come with flooded cell batteries, that's what I'm going to talk about here. [In 2010, AGM batteries became standard in Lazy Daze]


So here you are, out in the desert, relying on your batteries for power. You can only use lights and appliances that are 12 volt; nothing that uses a 3 prong plug (ac) will work.


If you want to use regular 110 volt items (DVD players, some TVs, charge your computer, etc.) you need an inverter.


An inverter takes 12-volt power from your batteries and changes it into 110 volts. Inverters come in several models, portable and hard wired. A small portable inverter plugs into a 12-volt outlet and contains regular 3-prong house plugs.


Different inverters can handle different amounts of power, so before you buy one, you need to do a bit of research. We opted for a hard wired full house inverter, so with the flick of a switch, all the 110 volt outlets in Cholula Red are "live". When we don't need this feature, we simply turn it off. Tech Note: A 400 watt inverter is more than adequate for charging computers, phones, a DVD and other low power requirement devices. If you want to power something like a hair dryer, you will need a 2000 watt hard wired inverter. The price difference between a portable 400 watt and hard wired 2000 watt inverter approaches $2,000. Also the 12-volt outlets will supply, at best, 10 amps, less the more removed they are from the batteries. Short story, anything that needs more than about 5 amps will need a hard wired inverter connected directly to the batteries.


Charging the Batteries


Depending on how much power you consume dictates when you will need to charge your batteries. This can be done in one of four ways.


First, anytime you are plugged into shore power, the batteries are being charged by the converter/charger unit.


Second is the option of solar power. Solar is a great boon to RVers and we love having it on Cholula Red. We have four panels, giving us lots of power for the batteries, assuming we have the sun to power them. That said, solar is somewhat expensive, and not for everyone. While we often have hook ups, we have found that solar gives us the opportunity to camp at places with no power for extended periods of time. I look at solar as an addition that opens up options. It does a great job of charging the batteries, but since it's an option rather than a standard item, I'm only mentioning it here for informational purposes. Tech Note: The power from the solar controller is fed directly to the batteries, bypassing the converter/charger.


Third, you can run your cab engine. This will charge your batteries via the engines alternator, and it's fairly efficient. HOWEVER, it's noisy, it pollutes and it uses a good amount of gasoline, so it's really not the best option. Tech Note: The batteries are charged by the alternator controlled by the engine's voltage regulator. Not ideal as the chassis and house batteries are probably at different charge levels.


Fourth, if you have a generator, you can charge your batteries with it. It also uses gasoline, but not as much as running the engine (.6 gallons per hour under a low load), But, there's a catch to charging the batteries via the generator. In order for your generator to charge your batteries, it has to use a device called a charger. And chargers come in various models.
Most RVs come with a single-stage charger as part of the built in converter. It takes the power made by the generator and it stores it the batteries. But here's where it gets tricky. Your batteries are sensitive, and they can only go to 100% charged. If you continue to charge them, they will start to “boil”. [The water appears to boil, but it’s actually hydrogen bubbles you see.] When they “boil”, your batteries will lose water.


And remember, YOU WANT TO KEEP YOU BATTERIES WATERED!!!


Tech Note: The charging ability of factory supplied converters varies. If you have the original converter, the charging will be very slow in all coaches manufactured before November 2001; that's when LD started installing the more modern 7345 converter. The earlier model 6345 converters charge at an incredibly slow rate so don't attempt to charge your batteries by running the generator.


So here's where you might want to consider a smart multi-stage charger. Not only does it charge your batteries, but it communicates with them. It knows when the batteries are low and need a lot of charge and it pumps the power in at a fast rate. When it reads that your batteries are getting close to full, it backs off to a lower rate of charge. And when it reads that your batteries are near to completely full, it goes in to a trickle charge mode. Three stage "smart" chargers are a real boon to RVers and I think a necessary upgrade for many users.


Now I want to talk a bit more about the power in your batteries. Now that you understand that the power comes from your batteries to your appliances, the question comes up, how do you know just how much power is left in your batteries?

The answer is simple. You need a battery monitor.


IF YOU DRY CAMP, YOU NEED A BATTERY MONITOR!


Short story here …When we first got Cholula Red, I was truly clueless about RV power. I understood that I didn't understand, and I wanted to learn. But when people would try to explain to me about power, they would start talking amps, volts and watts, and honestly, my eyes would just glaze over.


But, I did know that I was using a lot of power and I wanted to know where I stood. After all, we were running lights, watching television, playing DVDs, charging phones, computers, you get the idea. I wanted to know when my batteries were getting low, and I was completely clueless about how to find that out. Several people had told me that I could get this information from my solar controller (the device that monitors/controls the power from your solar panels to your battery). The catch was this - it would only give an accurate reading when there was no power going into or coming out of the batteries. And when would that be? Yep, I would find myself getting up in the middle of the night, turning on my flashlight and sneaking up to the display, trying to figure out how much power was left in the batteries. [Tech Note: Equating a voltage reading to the amount the batteries are discharged is up to 25% off.]


Now, with the push of a button the monitor tells me that I have exactly 83% left in my batteries (or whatever the percentage is at any given time). For me, managing the power in the RV became pretty simple after I got the battery monitor. If you don't want to have to learn all the math, it's the easiest way to manage your power.


Tech Note: Battery manufacturers warn that discharging below 50% will shorten the life cycle of the battery. Most users consider 65% the low threshold.]


by Kate Klein

12-Volt Electrical System

General
The electrical system in your Lazy Daze is a little more complicated than that of your home. Basically there are two major systems in your LD: a 110-volt AC system that is similar to your house and a 12-volt system that provides power when you are not plugged into the electrical grid, either at home or in a campground. The 12-volt system allows you to boondock without utility hookups and enjoy most of the conveniences of home. Check out the 110-volt AC System FAQ for more details on that.

The 12-volt system, as built by the factory, is powered from two different sources. The heart of the system is two Trojan T-105 6-volt batteries wired in series to provide 12 volts of power when not connected to shore power. Trojans are known for their durability and longevity, provided they are properly maintained. When connected to shore power or the generator, the 12-volt system is powered through the converter that is standard on all Lazy Daze motorhomes. On the front of the converter is a 12-volt panel with a number of fuse positions for the various 12-volt circuits in the coach.

As noted in the Battery Maintenance FAQ, it is important to keep your batteries as charged up (full of power) as possible, especially when boondocking. The batteries can be charged in four ways: running the generator, plugging into shore power, running the LD's engine, or optionally with solar panels.
When boondocking, it also pays to be aware of the current draw of lights and appliances, so you can make the available power in the batteries last as long as possible. Some folks have replaced the incandescent and fluorescent bulbs in the fixtures with LED bulbs that draw significantly less power. Many folks install a battery monitoring system, such as the Link-10, LinkPro, XBM or TriMetric that keeps track of battery use. Its computer keeps a running total of every milliamp that goes into or comes out of your battery bank. If you're a frequent boondocker, you might consider adding more batteries for storage of power and more solar panels to feed them.

There should be a matching of battery capacity to power needs.  In general, it is considered bad form to repeatedly draw down the batteries too far.  How much is too far?  Some say 50%.  Some say more, and some say less.  It seems clear that the less you draw down your batteries, the longer they will last.

Trouble-shooting
12-volt appliances or lights fail to operate:
The obvious place to start is to check the fuse. The 12-volt panel uses standard automotive flat-blade fuses of varying amperage, depending on the circuit. You should keep a supply of spare fuses handy.

Caution: If a fuse keeps blowing, do NOT replace with a higher-amperage fuse - find the source of the problem and repair it. Otherwise you may face a hazardous fire situation.

The entire coach 12-volt system is inoperative:
There is a 12 Volt 100 Amp manual reset circuit breaker located typically on the back wall of the battery compartment. There is also a 12 Volt 50 Amp manual reset circuit breaker located inside the coach very close to the enclosed battery "box". The location varies with the floor plan. On the RB, it is under the forward dinette cushion and u have to remove the screws from the plywood cover over the battery box to get to it. Some rigs may even have two of these. The "inside" breaker is a small gray plastic box about 1.5 inches by 1.5 inches by about 3/4 inches with a tiny black reset button. If you lose ALL 12 Volt power, this is the one to look for. On one new rig, a "run-away" ShurFlo 5.7 water pump caused this breaker to trip (50 Amps!!!!!!).
Contributors: Terry Tanner, WxToad
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